Minifragment plating of the fibula in unstable ankle fractures.

INTRODUCTION: Only 6.4-17% of the load is transmitted through the fibula when weight-bearing. Plate fixation of distal fibular fractures using minifragments (≤ 2.8 mm) could lead to similar reduction with less implant removal (IR) rates, compared to small-fragment plates (3.5 mm). We hypothesized that the use of minifragment plates is at least similar in unscheduled secondary surgery. MATERIALS AND METHODS: In this retrospective cohort study, all patients with surgically treated distal fibular fractures between October 2015 and March 2021 were included. Patients treated with plate fixation using minifragments and patients treated with small-fragment plates were compared regarding the following outcomes: secondary dislocation, malreduction, implant malposition, nonunion, surgical site infections (SSI) and IR. RESULTS: Sixty-five patients (54.2%) received a minifragment implant (≤ 2.8 mm) and 55 patients (45.8%) received a small-fragment implant (3.5 mm). There were no patients needing secondary surgery in the minifragment group compared to 9 patients following fixation using small-fragment implants (3 with secondary dislocation, 5 with malreduction and 1 with malposition, p = 0.001). SSI rates were 3.1% for minifragment and 9.1% for small-fragment implants (p = 0.161). Implant removal was performed significantly less often following use of minifragment implants (17.8% and 53.2%, p < 0.001). CONCLUSIONS: In this cohort, minifragment plate fixation for distal fibular fractures is an adequate fixation method offering stable fixation with significant lower need for implant removal and comparable complications to small-fragment plates, although an adequately powered randomized controlled study is needed for implementation in a clinical setting. LEVEL OF EVIDENCE: Therapeutic, III.

Meta-analysis of cardiovascular toxicity risks in cancer patients on selected targeted agents.

PURPOSE: The purpose was to estimate the risk and severity of cardiovascular toxicities associated with selected targeted agents. METHODS: We searched English-language literature for randomized clinical trials published between January 1, 2000 and November 30, 2013 of targeted cancer therapy drugs approved by the FDA by November 2010. One hundred ten studies were eligible. Using meta-analytic methods, we calculated the relative risks of several cardiovascular toxicities [congestive heart failure (CHF), decreased left ventricular ejection fraction (DLVEF), myocardial infarction (MI), arrhythmia, and hypertension (HTN)], adjusting for sample size using the inverse-variance technique. For each targeted agent and side effect, we calculated the number needed to harm. RESULTS: Regarding CHF, trastuzumab showed significantly greater risk of all-grade and high-grade CHF. There was significant increased risk of all-grade DLVEF with sorafenib, sunitinib, and trastuzumab and high-grade DLVEF with bevacizumab and trastuzumab. Sorafenib was associated with significant increased all-grade risk of MI based on one study. None was associated with high-grade risk of MI or increased risk of arrhythmia. Bevacizumab, sorafenib, and sunitinib had significant increased risk of all-grade and high-grade HTN. CONCLUSIONS: Several of the targeted agents were significantly associated with increased risk of specific cardiovascular toxicities, CHF, DLVEF, and HTN. Several had significant increased risk for high-grade cardiovascular toxicities (CHF, DLVEF, and HTN). Patients receiving such therapy should be closely monitored for these toxicities and early and aggressive treatment should occur. However, clinical experience has demonstrated that some of these toxicities may be reversible and due to secondary effects.

Treatment of rectal war wounds.

Treatment strategies for penetrating rectal injuries (PRI) in civilian settings are still not uniformly agreed, in part since high-energy transfer PRI, such as is frequently seen in military settings, are not taken into account. Here, we describe three cases of PRI, treated in a deployed combat environment, and outline the management strategies successfully employed. We also discuss the literature regarding PRI management. Where there is a major soft tissue component, repetitive debridement and vacuum therapy is useful. A loop or end colostomy should be used, depending on the degree of damage to the anal sphincter complex.

Delayed diagnosed injuries in trauma patients after initial trauma assessment with a total-body computed tomography scan.

INTRODUCTION: Even when using the Advanced Trauma Life Support (ATLS) guidelines and other diagnostic protocols for the initial assessment of trauma patients, not all injuries will be diagnosed in this early stage of care. The aim of this study was to quantify how many, and assess which type of injuries were diagnosed with delay during the initial assessment of trauma patients including a total-body computed tomography (TBCT) scan in a Level 1 Trauma Center in the Netherlands. METHODS: We conducted a retrospective cohort study of 697 trauma patients who were assessed in the trauma bay of the Amsterdam University Medical Center (AUMC), using a TBCT. A delayed diagnosed injury was defined as an injury sustained during the initial trauma and not discovered nor suspected upon admission to the Intensive Care Unit (ICU) or surgical ward following the initial assessment, diagnostic studies, or during immediate surgery. A clinically significant delayed diagnosis of injury was defined as an injury requiring follow-up or further medical treatment. We aimed to identify variables associated with delayed diagnosed injuries. RESULTS: In total, 697 trauma patients with a median age of 46 years (IQR 30-61) and a median Injury Severity Score (ISS) of 16 (IQR 9-25) were included. Delayed diagnosed injuries were found in 97 patients (13.9 %), of whom 79 injuries were clinically significant (81.4 %). Forty-eight of the delayed diagnosed injuries (49.5 %) were within the TBCT field. Ten delayed diagnosed injuries had an Abbreviated Injury Scale (AIS) of ≥3. Most injuries were diagnosed before or during the tertiary survey (60.8 %). The median time of delay was 34.5 h (IQR 17.5-157.3). Variables associated with delayed diagnosed injuries were primary ICU admission (OR 1.8, p = 0.014), an ISS ≥ 16 (OR 1.6, p = 0.042), and prolonged hospitalization (40+ days) (OR 8.5, p < 0.001). CONCLUSION: With the inclusion of the TBCT during the primary assessment of trauma patients, delayed diagnosed injuries still occurs in a significant number of patients (13.9 %). Factors associated with delayed diagnosed injuries were direct admission to ICU and an ISS ≥ 16.

Trauma-related preventable death; data analysis and panel review at a level 1 trauma centre in Amsterdam, the Netherlands.

PURPOSE: Trauma-related death is used as a parameter to evaluate the quality of trauma care and identify cases in which mortality could have been prevented under optimal trauma care conditions. The aim of this study was to identify trauma-related preventable death (TRPD) within our institute by an external expert panel and to evaluate inter-panel reliability. METHODS: Trauma-related deaths between the 1st of January 2020 and the 1st of February 2022 at the Amsterdam University Medical Centre were identified. The severely injured patients (injury severity score ≥ 16) were enrolled for preventability analysis by an external multidisciplinary panel, consisting of a trauma surgeon, anaesthesiologist, emergency physician, neurosurgeon, and forensic physician. Case descriptions were provided, and panellists were asked to classify deaths as non-preventable, potentially preventable, and preventable. Agreements between the five observers were assessed by Fleiss kappa statistics. RESULTS: In total 95 trauma-related deaths were identified. Of which 36 fatalities were included for analysis, the mean age was 55.3 years (± 24.5), 69.4% were male and 88.9% suffered blunt trauma. The mean injury severity score was 35.3 (± 15.3). Interobserver agreement within the external panel was moderate for survivability (Fleiss kappa 0.474) but low for categorical preventable death classification (Fleiss kappa 0.298). Most of the disagreements were between non-preventable or potentially preventable with care that could have been improved. CONCLUSION: Multidisciplinary panel review has a moderate inter-observer agreement regarding survivability and low agreement regarding categorical preventable death classification. A valid definition and classification of TRPD is required to improve inter-observer agreement and quality of trauma care.

Characteristics of fatal penetrating injury; data from a retrospective cohort study in three urban regions in the Netherlands.

INTRODUCTION: Penetrating injury (PI) is a relatively rare mechanism of trauma in the Netherlands. Nevertheless, injuries can be severe with high morbidity and mortality rates. The aim of this study is to assess fatalities due to PI and evaluate the demographic parameters, mechanism of injury and the resulting injury patterns of this group of patients in three Dutch regions. METHODS: Patients suffering fatal PI (stab- and gunshot injuries), in the period between July 1st 2013 and July 1st 2019, in the region of Amsterdam, Utrecht and The Hague were included. Data were collected from the electronic registration system (Formatus) of the regional departments of Forensic Medicine. RESULTS: During the study period 283 patients died as the result of PI. The mean age was 44 years (SD 16.9), 83% was male and psychiatric history was reported in 22%. Over 60% of the injuries were due to assault and 35% was self-inflicted. Almost half of the incidents took place at home (47%). Injuries were most frequently to the head (24%) and chest (16%). Mortality was due to exsanguination (chest 27%, multiple body region's 17%, neck 9% and extremities 8%) and traumatic brain injury (21%). Up to 40% of the patients received medical treatment, surgical intervention was performed in 25%. The injuries to the extremities suggest a (potentially) preventable death rate of over 8%. Over 70% of the total population died at the scene. CONCLUSION: Fatal PI most often involves the relatively young, male, and psychiatric patient. Self-inflicted fatal PI accounted for 35%, addressing the importance of suicide prevention programs. Identification of preventable deaths needs more awareness to reduce the number of fatal PI.

Preventable death in trauma: A systematic review on definition and classification.

PURPOSE: Trauma-related preventable death (TRPD) has been used to assess the management and quality of trauma care worldwide. However, due to differences in terminology and application, the definition of TRPD lacks validity. The aim of this systematic review is to present an overview of current literature and establish a designated definition of TRPD to improve the assessment of quality of trauma care. METHODS: A search was conducted in PubMed, Embase, the Cochrane Library and the Web of Science Core Collection. Including studies regarding TRPD, published between January 1, 1990, and April 6, 2021. Studies were assessed on the use of a definition of TRPD, injury severity scoring tool and panel review. RESULTS: In total, 3,614 articles were identified, 68 were selected for analysis. The definition of TRPD was divided in four categories: I. Clinical definition based on panel review or expert opinion (TRPD, trauma-related potentially preventable death, trauma-related non-preventable death), II. An algorithm (injury severity score (ISS), trauma and injury severity score (TRISS), probability of survival (Ps)), III. Clinical definition completed with an algorithm, IV. Other. Almost 85% of the articles used a clinical definition in some extend; solely clinical up to an additional algorithm. A total of 27 studies used injury severity scoring tools of which the ISS and TRISS were the most frequently reported algorithms. Over 77% of the panels included trauma surgeons, 90% included other specialist; 61% emergency medicine physicians, 46% forensic pathologists and 43% nurses. CONCLUSION: The definition of TRPD is not unambiguous in literature and should be based on a clinical definition completed with a trauma prediction algorithm such as the TRISS. TRPD panels should include a trauma surgeon, anesthesiologist, emergency physician, neurologist, and forensic pathologist.

Selective non-operative management for penetrating abdominal injury in a Dutch trauma centre.

INTRODUCTION: Selective non-operative management (SNOM) for penetrating abdominal injury (PAI) is accepted in trauma centres in South Africa and the US. Owing to the low incidence of gunshot wounds (GSWs) in Western Europe, few are inclined to practise SNOM for such injuries although it is considered for stab wounds (SWs). This study evaluated the outcome of patients admitted to a Dutch level 1 trauma centre with PAI. METHODS: A retrospective study was undertaken of all PAI patients treated over 15 years. In order to prevent bias, patients admitted six months prior to and six months following implementation of a treatment algorithm were excluded. Data concerning type of injury, injury severity score and treatment were compared. RESULTS: A total of 393 patients were included in the study: 278 (71%) with SWs and 115 (29%) with GSWs. Of the 178 SW patients in the SNOM group, 111 were treated before and 59 after introduction of the protocol. The SNOM success rates were 90% and 88% respectively (p=0.794). There were 43 patients with GSWs in the SNOM cohort. Of these, 32 were treated before and 11 after implementation of the algorithm, with respective success rates of 94% and 100% (p=0.304).The protocol did not bring about any significant change in the rate of non-therapeutic laparotomies for SWs or GSWs. However, the rate of admission for observation for SWs increased from 83% to 100% (p<0.001). There was a decrease in ultrasonography for SWs (from 84% to 32%, p<0.001) as well as for GSWs (from 87% to 43%, p<0.001). X-ray was also used less for GSWs after the protocol was introduced (44% vs 11%, p=0.001). CONCLUSIONS: SNOM for PAI resulting from either SWs or GSWs can be safely practised in Western European trauma centres. Results are comparable with those in trauma centres that treat high volumes of PAI cases.

Patent processus vaginalis in the adult as a risk factor for the occurrence of indirect inguinal hernia.

BACKGROUND: Inguinal hernias are a common entity with nearly 31,000 repairs annually in The Netherlands and over 800,000 in the USA. The aim of the present study is to determine whether a laparoscopically diagnosed patent processus vaginalis (PPV) is a risk factor for the development of groin hernia. METHODS: The study population was originally composed of 599 consecutive cases (189 male, 32%) of laparoscopic transperitoneal surgery for different indications performed in 4 teaching hospitals in The Netherlands between November 1998 and February 2002. During laparoscopy, the deep inguinal ring was inspected bilaterally. The PPV group was compared with the obliterative processus vaginalis (OPV) group. RESULTS: After a mean follow-up of 5.5 years, the studied population consisted of 337 cases (94 male, 28%). In this study 12% of the studied population appeared to have PPV in adult life. The percentage PPV of our study group is much higher than the percentage of hernia repairs performed in the Dutch population. A greater proportion (12%) of hernia repairs in the PPV group was found as compared with the OPV group (3%). The chance of developing an inguinal hernia within 5.3 years is four times higher in the group with PPV. No significant correlation between age and the prevalence of PPV was observed. CONCLUSION: This study demonstrates that PPV is an etiologic factor and a risk factor for acquiring an indirect inguinal hernia in adults.

Natural course of incisional hernia and indications for repair.

BACKGROUND: Incisional hernias and incisional hernia repair can be a significant challenge for both surgeon and patient. Despite the growing amount of literature describing various methods of surgical techniques, little has been published the natural course of an incisional hernia and regarding indications for incisional hernia repair. METHODS: An internet database search was performed to identify articles describing symptoms presented by patients and indications for incisional hernia repair. RESULTS: Various symptoms and indications regarding incisional hernia repair and the natural course of an incisional hernia are mentioned in the literature. Nevertheless, published data accurately describing these symptoms and indications are rare. CONCLUSION: A prospective trial monitoring incisional hernias as well as comparing conservative treatment with repair should be performed.

Unstable fragility fractures of the ankle in the elderly: Transarticular Steinmann pin or external fixation.

INTRODUCTION: Because of poor skin conditions and comorbidity, open reduction and internal fixation in ankle fractures is frequently contra-indicated in the elderly. This study reports the results of two temporary fixation types in fragility fractures in the older patient: transarticular Steinmann pin fixation and external fixation. METHODS: Patients aged over 60 treated with a Steinmann pin or external fixation were retrospectively included. Patient, fracture and treatment characteristics were collected. RESULTS: Fifteen patients were included. Nine were managed using a Steinmann pin and six by external fixation. All reached fracture consolidation. Patients treated with a Steinmann pin underwent a median of 2 operations and the pin was left in situ for 80 days. Three patients suffered from superficial wound infection. X-ray showed malreduction in 67% and only two patients returned to pre-injury mobility. A median of 2 operations with 32 fixation days was reported in the external fixation group. This group showed one deep infection. In 50% there was malreduction, one patient experienced disability in ambulation at the end of treatment. CONCLUSION: Both techniques show few complications, but have, as expected, poor results in fracture reduction and functional outcome. External fixation and subsequent internal fixation could result in better functional outcome.

Evaluation of new prosthetic meshes for ventral hernia repair.

BACKGROUND: In hernia repair, particularly laparoscopic hernia repair, direct contact between mesh and abdominal organs cannot always be avoided. Several mesh materials and composite meshes have been developed to decrease subsequent adhesion formation. Recently, new meshes have been introduced. In an experimental rat study, their value was established and compared with that of meshes already available on the market. METHODS: In 200 rats, eight different meshes were placed intraperitoneally and in direct contact with abdominal viscera. The following meshes were tested: polypropylene (Prolene), e-PTFE (Dualmesh), polypropylene- polyglecaprone composite (Ultrapro), titanium-polypropylene composite (Timesh), polypropylene with carboxymethylcellulose-sodium hyaluronate coating (Sepramesh), polyester with collagen-polyethylene glycol-glycerol coating (Parietex Composite), polypropylene-polydioxanone composite with oxidized cellulose coating (Proceed), and bovine pericardium (Tutomesh). At 7 and then at 30 days postoperatively, adhesion formation, mesh incorporation, tensile strength, shrinkage, and infection were scored by two independent observers. RESULTS: Parietex Composite, Sepramesh, and Tutomesh resulted in decreased surface coverage with adhesions, whereas Prolene, Dualmesh, Ultrapro, Timesh, and Proceed resulted in increased adhesion coverage. Parietex Composite, Prolene, Ultrapro, and Sepramesh resulted in the most mesh incorporation. Dualmesh and Tutomesh resulted in significantly increased shrinkage. There were no differences in mesh infection. Parietex Composite and Dualmesh resulted in a moderate inflammatory reaction, as compared with the mild reaction the other meshes exhibited. CONCLUSION: Parietex Composite and Sepramesh combine minimal adhesion formation with maximum mesh incorporation and tensile strength. The authors recommend the use of these meshes for hernia repair in which direct contact with the abdominal viscera cannot be avoided.

Totally extraperitoneal repair for bilateral inguinal hernia: does mesh configuration matter?

BACKGROUND: The endoscopic preperitoneal approach has numerous advantages for the reconstruction of bilateral inguinal hernias. Repair may be achieved using either one large or two small meshes. The aim of this study was to investigate whether one of the techniques was superior in terms of recurrence and complication rate. METHODS: Data obtained from 113 patients who underwent surgery between January 1998 and December 2001 was reviewed. For the sake of this study, 86% of all patients were examined for hernia recurrence at an additional outpatient visit. RESULTS: The findings showed recurrence rates, of 3.5% for single mesh and 3.7% for double mesh. This difference was not significant. Complication rates did not differ significantly between the groups. CONCLUSIONS: Endoscopic preperitoneal bilateral hernia repair is a safe and reliable technique in the hands of experienced surgeons. The rate of hernia recurrence and complications is low and independent of the mesh configuration (single or double). Mesh configuration based on personal preference is permissible.

Long-term follow-up after umbilical hernia repair: are there risk factors for recurrence after simple and mesh repair.

Adult umbilical hernia is a common surgical condition mainly encountered in the fifth and sixth decade of life. Despite the high frequency of the umbilical hernia repair procedure, disappointingly high recurrence rates, up to 54% for simple suture repair, are reported. Since both mesh and suture techniques are used in our clinic we set out to investigate the respective recurrence rates and associated complications, retrospectively. Patients who were treated between January 1998 and December 2002 were identified from our hospital database and invited to attend the outpatient department for an extra follow-up, history taking and physical examination. The use of prosthetic material, occurrence of surgical site infection, body mass and height as well as recurrence were recorded at the time of this survey. In total, 131 consecutive patients underwent operative repair of an umbilical hernia. Twenty-eight percent of the patients were female (n = 37). In 12 patients (11%) umbilical hernia repair was achieved with mesh implantation. Fourteen umbilical hernia recurrences were noted (13%); none had been repaired using mesh. No relationship was found between wound infection or obesity and umbilical hernia recurrence. In the light of these results it is necessary to re-evaluate our clinical "guidelines" on mesh placement in umbilical hernia repair: apparently not every umbilical fascial defect needs mesh repair. Research should focus on establishing risk factors for hernia recurrence.

[Fresh fractures of the radial head: results with the Judet prosthesis]. / Les fractures fraîches de la tête radiale: résultats de la prothèse à cupule flottante de Judet.

PURPOSE OF THE STUDY: Communitive fractures of the radial head are a therapeutic challenge when fixation is not possible. Secondary sequelae including ulnar valgus, ascension of the radius, osteoporosis of the humeral condyle and biomechanical impairment of the elbow cannot be avoided with resection or the Swanson prosthesis. The Judet prosthesis, with its floating cup, is a technically attractive solution, but the question is whether it can avoid the secondary effects observed with resection or the Swanson prosthesis. MATERIAL AND METHODS: We have used the Judet prosthesis since August 1995 in 16 patients. These patients had Mason type IV (Johnston modification) lesions of the radial head in 14 cases and type III lesions in 2. Associated injuries included: Monteggia fracture in 2, open fracture-dislocation in 1, fracture of the radial neck associated with fracture of the lower radius in 1, and dislocation of the elbow in 2. Preoperatively, 7 of the 16 patients had an osteocartilaginous injury of the humeral condyle. The Judet prosthesis was implanted after resection in 3 patients, after osteosynthesis of the radial head in 3 others, and as the first line treatment in 10. Postoperatively, 13 of the 16 patients were given a unique 7 Gy radiation to prevent ossification as well as nonsteroidal antiinflammatory drugs (indometazin 50 mg b.i.d.) for 3 weeks. None of the patients were immobilized. RESULTS: Mean follow-up for the 16 patients was 19 months (12-45). Deficient extension persisted in 5 patients (mean 5 degrees ). Average flexion was 128 degrees; two patients were limited to 100 degrees. Average pronation was 77 degrees, and average supination 79 degrees. Muscle force was 10% weaker than the healthy side. Sagittal and frontal stability in valgus was preserved in 14 patients. Two patients had a frontal instability with minimal valgus related to a minor insufficiency of the medial collateral ligament. According to the Radin and Riseborough classification, outcome was good in 7, fair in 6 and poor in 3. According to the Morrey classification, outcome was excellent in 2, good in 12, fair in 1 and poor in 1. Radiologically, there were no cases with ulnar valgus, humeral condyle osteoporosis, ascension of the radius, or subluxation of the distal radioulnar joint. The prosthesis loosened in one case without clinical expression. DISCUSSION: Our results with the Judet prosthesis were much better than those reported in the literature for resection and Swanson prosthesis.

Incisional hernia after upper abdominal surgery: a randomised controlled trial of midline versus transverse incision.

OBJECTIVES: To determine whether a transverse incision is an alternative to a midline incision in terms of incisional hernia incidence, surgical site infection, postoperative pain, hospital stay and cosmetics in cholecystectomy. Incisional hernias after midline incision are commonly underestimated but probably complicate between 2 and 20% of all abdominal wall closures. The midline incision is the preferred incision for surgery of the upper abdomen despite evidence that alternatives, such as the lateral paramedian and transverse incision, exist and might reduce the rate of incisional hernia. A RCT was preformed in the pre-laparoscopic cholecystectomy era the data of which were never published. METHODS: One hundred and fifty female patients were randomly allocated to cholecystectomy through midline or transverse incision. Early complications, the duration to discharge and the in-hospital use of analgesics was noted. Patients returned to the surgical outpatient clinic for evaluation of the cosmetic results of the scar and to evaluate possible complications such as fistula, wound dehiscence and incisional hernia after a minimum of 12 months follow-up. RESULTS: Two percent (1/60) of patients that had undergone the procedure through a transverse incision presented with an incisional hernia as opposed to 14% (9/63) of patients from the midline incision group (P = 0.017). Transverse incisions were found to be significantly shorter than midline incisions and associated with more pleasing appearance. More patients having undergone a midline incision, reported pain on day one, two and three postoperatively than patients from the transverse group. The use of analgesics did not differ between the two groups. CONCLUSIONS: In light of our results a transverse incision should, if possible, be considered as the preferred incision in acute and elective surgery of the upper abdomen when laparoscopic surgery is not an option.

Intraperitoneal polypropylene mesh hernia repair complicates subsequent abdominal surgery.

BACKGROUND: Prosthetic incisional hernia repair (PIHR) is superior to primary closure in preventing hernia recurrence. Serious complications have been associated with the use of prosthetic material. Complications of subsequent surgical interventions after prior PIHR in relation to its anatomical position were the objectives of this study. PATIENTS AND METHODS: Patients who underwent subsequent laparotomy/laparoscopy after PIHR between January 1992 and February 2005 at our institution were evaluated. Intraperitoneal and preperitoneal mesh was related to complication rates after subsequent surgical interventions. RESULTS: Sixty-six of 335 patients underwent re-laparotomy after PIHR. The perioperative course was complicated in 76% (30/39) of procedures with intraperitoneal placed grafts compared to 29% (8/27) of interventions with preperitoneally positioned meshes (P < 0.001). Small bowel resections were necessary in 21% of the intraperitoneal group (8/39) versus 0% in the preperitoneal group. Surgical site infection rates were higher in the intraperitoneal group (10/39, 26%, versus 1/27, 4%). Enterocutaneous fistula formation was rare and occurred in two patients after subsequent laparotomy (5%). CONCLUSIONS: Re-laparotomy after PIHR with polypropylene meshes are associated with more preoperative and postoperative complications when the mesh is placed intraperitoneally. Therefore 0intraperitoneal positioning of polypropylene mesh at incisional hernia repair should be avoided if possible.