Extending the gift-utilizing residual human anatomical materials for training Pathologists' Assistants in surgical pathology techniques.

This study investigates the effectiveness of using residual human anatomical materials, obtained from a gross anatomy course, for training Pathologists' Assistant (PathA) students in surgical pathology techniques. We utilized two surveys to assess the perceived efficacy of this approach: one survey targeted PathA students to evaluate their training experiences with both human and animal tissues, while the other assessed the impact of specimen collection on the educational experiences of gross anatomy course students.

Grossing to reporting of Wilms tumor with emphasis on proper sampling in treatment-naive and postchemotherapy specimens and their clinicopathological correlation with outcome.

Context: Emphasis on grossing to reporting for the assessment of histopathological parameters predicting outcomes in Wilms tumor. Aims: To analyze various clinicopathological parameters that effect outcomes in treatment naïve and post chemotherapy Wilms tumor specimens. Settings and Design: This was a retrospective observational study. Subjects and Methods: All patients diagnosed with Wilms tumor between 2012 and 2018 at our institute will be included with their clinical findings, laboratory reports, and radiological findings. The patients will be categorized into two groups based on treatment protocol (Society of Pediatric Oncology (SIOP) or the National Wilms Tumor Study Group/Children's Oncology Group (COG) guidelines) used. Details of Grossing and reporting protocols used for the in pre treatment and post treatment specimens will be analyzed. Follow-up till December 2020 will be analyzed. Statistical Analysis Used: Chi-square and Fisher's exact tests were used for statistical analysis. Results: A total of 36 patients with the diagnosis of Wilms tumor were included in the present study. The mean age of presentation was 3.9 ± 0.7 years, and males were more common than females. Most of them presented as abdominal mass and few with isolated hematuria. Twenty-six (72%) patients were treated under SIOP protocol with preoperative neoadjuvant chemotherapy. Ten patients underwent upfront surgery as per COG protocol. In SIOP group patients, the mean tumor size was 9.3cm. Forty percent (n = 10) we mixed histological type followed by blastemal type constituting (32%, n = 8). Regressive and epithelial histological types constituted 16% (n = 4) and 12% (n = 3), respectively. In the SIOP group 72% (n = 19) had no anaplasia and 28% (n = 7) had anaplasia. Fifty seven percent (n = 15) cases were Stage I, followed by 26.9% n = 7) and 11.5% (n = 3) being Stage II and Stage III, respectively. Ten patients underwent upfront surgery as per COG protocol. The mean tumor size among this group was 8 cm ranging from 7 cm to 11 cm. Eight (80%) cases had favorable histology and two cases showed focal anaplasia. Heterologous differentiation is seen in 3 (70%). Out of the 10 cases, one case was Stage I, six were Stage 2, one was Stage III, and two were clinical Stage IV. None of the cases showed either vessel or lymph node metastasis. All the patients received adjuvant chemotherapy postsurgery and were followed up till December 2020 for (at least 3 years). Of 25 patients in the SIOP group, 18 (72%) had complete remission with no radiological evidence of residual disease. Of the 10 patients in the COG group, 6 (70%) had complete remission. Conclusions: Histopathological evaluation of Wilms tumor is a critical aspect in the management of Wilms tumor, as tumor characteristics are different in the tumors treated under SIOP and COG protocols, which will ultimately affect the prognostic risk stratification. This necessitates the knowledge of the important grossing and reporting of these tumors under the two protocols.

Clinical-pathologic correlation: The impact of grossing at the bedside.

The unenlightened clinician may submit a skin specimen to the lab and expect an "answer." The experienced clinician knows that in performing skin biopsies, it is critical to select the most appropriate: 1) anatomic location for the biopsy1,2; 2) type of biopsy1,2; 3) depth and breadth of the biopsy; and 4) medium for hematoxylin and eosin staining (formalin) or direct immunofluorescence (Michel's Transport Medium or normal saline).2 Demographic information, anatomic location, clinical context, and differential diagnosis are all critical components of a properly completed requisition form.3-5 Proper biopsy design and appropriate grossing of the tissue at the bedside should be added to this list. In this article, we review the basics of gross pathologic examination and then provide four examples to demonstrate that optimal clinical-pathologic correlation requires the clinician consider the needs of the pathologist when tissue is presented to the lab.

Routine Use of a Standardized Mastectomy Diagram by Surgeons Improves Accuracy and Timeliness of the Final Pathological Report.

BACKGROUND: Accurate and timely assessment of pathology specimens is critical for patient care and oncologic management. This study aimed to determine whether a standardized mastectomy diagram would facilitate communication among surgeons and pathologists and improve pathologic processing. METHODS: A prospective quality improvement study was conducted over a continuous 12-month period. During the first 6 months, usual pathologic processing of mastectomy specimens was performed per standard department protocol. In the second 6 months, a standardized mastectomy diagram was completed at the time of surgery, noting the location and preoperative pathologic diagnosis of all benign and malignant lesions. An analysis of covariance was used to compare the number of breast lesions identified and the number of days between specimen receipt and the date of the final pathology report between each group. RESULTS: Time from specimen receipt to final pathologic report decreased from a mean (± SE) of 8.3 ± 0.7 days in the usual processing group to 6.1 ± 0.6 days with the use of the standardized mastectomy diagram, for a between-group difference of 2.1 days (95% confidence interval [CI] 0.3-4.0; p = 0.02). The number of lesions identified increased from 1.8 ± 0.2 to 2.6 ± 0.2, for a between-group difference of 0.8 (95% CI 0.1-1.5; p = 0.02). CONCLUSION: A standardized mastectomy diagram completed at the time of surgery improves the quality of pathologic processing. The diagram, which serves as a mastectomy lesion map, assists lesion localization, enhances accuracy, and reduces time to final pathology report.

The utility of a gross dissection anatomical model for simulation-based learning in pathology.

INTRODUCTION: The examination of morphological alterations in tissues is fundamental in Pathology. Traditional training in gross dissection has several limitations, including the risk of transmissible diseases, formaldehyde exposure and limited specimen availability. We describe a teaching method using anatomical simulators. METHODS: Liquid silicone-based artisan neoplastic anatomical models were used in conjunction with clinical scenarios. Eighty-five medical students participated in a gross dissection experience and were asked to complete a feedback questionnaire. Additionally, a workshop was organized for students to compare three different teaching methods. The first one used still images (Group1-G1), the second a video explanation (Group2-G2), and the third directly observed a pathologist while grossing (Group3-G3). RESULTS: The knowledge acquisition questionnaire showed an average value of 4.4 out of 5 (1-5) (range 3.4-4.7, σ0.89). The categories 'knowledge of resection margins' and 'macroscopic diagnosis' received the highest values (4.8, σ0.11 and 4.7, σ0.32, respectively), followed by 'understanding of handling and gross examination of the surgical specimen' (4.5, σ0.49), 'prognosis' (4.3, σ0.67) and 'understanding of a tumor resection' (3.9, σ0.96) (p<0.05). Regarding teaching methods, G3 spent less time than G2 and G1 with mean times of 15'39″ (σ2'12″), 16'50″ (σ3'45″), and 17'52″ (σ2'12″), respectively (p<0.05). Gross dissection marks (0-5) showed statistically significant differences (p<0.05). G2 obtained better results (3.7;σ0.54) than G3 (3.4;σ0.94) or G1 (3.1;σ0.8). CONCLUSIONS: This preliminary study demonstrates that it is possible to implement a gross dissection simulation module at medical school and thus enable the acquisition of skills in a secure environment.

The utility of a gross dissection anatomical model for simulation-based learning in pathology

Introduction: The examination of morphological alterations in tissues is fundamental in Pathology. Traditional training in gross dissection has several limitations, including the risk of transmissible diseases, formaldehyde exposure and limited specimen availability. We describe a teaching method using anatomical simulators. Methods: Liquid silicone-based artisan neoplastic anatomical models were used in conjunction with clinical scenarios. Eighty-five medical students participated in a gross dissection experience and were asked to complete a feedback questionnaire. Additionally, a workshop was organized for students to compare three different teaching methods. The first one used still images (Group1-G1), the second a video explanation (Group2-G2), and the third directly observed a pathologist while grossing (Group3-G3). Results: The knowledge acquisition questionnaire showed an average value of 4.4 out of 5 (1–5) (range 3.4–4.7, σ0.89). The categories ‘knowledge of resection margins’ and ‘macroscopic diagnosis’ received the highest values (4.8, σ0.11 and 4.7, σ0.32, respectively), followed by ‘understanding of handling and gross examination of the surgical specimen’ (4.5, σ0.49), ‘prognosis’ (4.3, σ0.67) and ‘understanding of a tumor resection’ (3.9, σ0.96) (p<0.05). Regarding teaching methods, G3 spent less time than G2 and G1 with mean times of 15′39″ (σ2′12″), 16′50″ (σ3′45″), and 17′52″ (σ2′12″), respectively (p<0.05). Gross dissection marks (0–5) showed statistically significant differences (p<0.05). G2 obtained better results (3.7;σ0.54) than G3 (3.4;σ0.94) or G1 (3.1;σ0.8). Conclusions: This preliminary study demonstrates that it is possible to implement a gross dissection simulation module at medical school and thus enable the acquisition of skills in a secure environment.(AU)

Introducción: En Anatomía Patológica el examen macroscópico y la disección resultan fundamentales para alcanzar un diagnóstico correcto. Los métodos tradicionales de enseñanza de esta habilidad presentan limitaciones, como el riesgo de enfermedad transmisible, la exposición al formol y la disponibilidad de especímenes. Describimos aquí un método de enseñanza en disección utilizando simuladores anatómicos. Material y métodos: Se usaron modelos anatómicos neoplásicos artesanales que utilizan silicona líquida. Ochenta y cinco estudiantes de medicina participaron en una experiencia de examen macroscópico y disección y cumplimentaron un cuestionario sobre su percepción de aprendizaje adquirido. Además, se organizó un taller para comparar 3 metodologías distintas: imágenes estáticas (Grupo 1), vídeo (Grupo 2) y observación directa de un patólogo tallando (Grupo 3). Resultados: El cuestionario de conocimientos adquiridos mostró una valoración media de 4,4 sobre 5 (1-5) (rango 3,4-4,7, σ=0,89). Las categorías de «conocimiento sobre márgenes quirúrgicos» y «diagnóstico macroscópico» obtuvieron las mejores valoraciones (4,8, σ=0,11 y 4,7, σ=0,32, respectivamente), seguidas del «manejo de una pieza quirúrgica y su disección» (4,5, σ=0,49), el «pronóstico» (4,3, σ=0,67) y la «comprensión de una cirugía tumoral» (3,9, σ=0,96) (p<0,05). En relación con el método de enseñanza, el Grupo 3 realizó la disección en menos tiempo que el Grupo 2 y el Grupo 1, con unos tiempos medios de 15′39″ (σ=2′12″), 16′50″ (σ=3′45″), y 17′52″ (σ=2′12″), respectivamente (p<0,05). Por otra parte, se encontraron resultados estadísticamente significativos en función de la metodología utilizada (0-5) (p<0,05). El Grupo 2 obtuvo mejores resultados (3,7; σ=0,54) comparado con el Grupo 3 (3,4; σ=0,94) y el Grupo 1 (3,1; σ=0,8). Conclusiones: Este estudio preliminar demuestra que es posible implementar un módulo de simulación en disección en el Grado en Medicina, permitiendo esta metodología adquirir la habilidad en un entorno seguro.(AU)

Clinicopathologic features and proposed grossing protocol of orchiectomy specimens performed for gender affirmation surgery.

Gender affirmation surgery performed for gender dysphoria is increasing to instigate changes more closely approximating gender identity. We investigated the clinicopathologic features of gender-affirming orchiectomies performed at our institution and devised a grossing protocol for these increasingly encountered specimens. We obtained 45 orchiectomies from 23 patients and reviewed clinicopathologic features. The number of sections per case was noted and reviewed to devise an optimal grossing protocol to assess pathologic findings. Twenty-three patients had bilateral orchiectomy with 1 unilateral. The average patient age was 39.4 years (range, 21-71 years); all received hormones for a mean of 66.1 months (range, 12-348 months). The average number of slides per orchiectomy was 8 slides (range, 1-11). Aspermatogenesis occurred in 32 (71%), hypospermatogenesis in 8 (18%), and normal spermatogenesis in 5 (11%) testes. Twenty-five (56%) exhibited scattered cells with nuclear cytomegaly, concerning for germ cell neoplasia in situ (GCNIS), but OCT4 negative. Six (13%) had multinucleated stromal cells. Leydig cells were markedly reduced/absent in 38 testes (85%). Epithelial hyperplasia was identified in 15 rete testes (33%) and 24 epididymes (53%), while 18 (40%) showed periepididymal muscular hyperplasia. All findings were identified in the initial 2 slides including rete testis/epididymis, except for 3 cases, missing only focal tubular sclerosis. Despite all received treatment, only a subset showed changes of exogenous hormone therapy. The presence of nuclear cytomegaly can mimic GCNIS and may be a potential pitfall. Two sections to include rete testis/epididymis and a third of cord margin are sufficient to identify the relevant pathology and germ cell tumors overall are uncommon in orchiectomies performed for gender affirmation.

Value of an Action Cam in Surgical Pathology.

Grossing of surgical pathology specimens is a complex task, which may be challenging to master correctly. Despite the growing use of digital technology in other aspects of surgical pathology, little has been done so far to modernize the documentation of grossing. We used a portable video camera ("GoPro") to document different grossing procedures. The video material may be used for teaching purposes or might enhance the more commonplace macroscopic description by adding another dimension. Furthermore, video documentation may encourage the discussion of upcoming clinical questions or help rectify some possible initial impreciseness.

The impact of pathology grossing protocol measures to improve pathologic nodal staging in lung cancer.

OBJECTIVE: Accurate assessment of lymph node (LN) status is essential for proper staging of resected lung cancer specimens. Here, we assessed pathology-centric interventions to increase the number of peribronchial LNs identified and evaluated in anatomic lung cancer resection specimens as part of a quality improvement initiative. MATERIALS AND METHODS: All non-small cell lung cancer (NSCLC) anatomic resection specimens from 2017 to 2020 were evaluated, comprising two years pre-intervention and one year post-intervention. We instituted 3 measures to increase peribronchial LN yield: 1) educational grossing sessions for pathology assistants and residents, 2) directions to submit additional peribronchial tissue if no LNs were identified grossly, and 3) a hard-stop prior to sign-out by the attending pathologist if no peribronchial LNs were identified. RESULTS: Of the total 227 resection specimens for NSCLC, 107/151 (70.9%) of specimens prior to the intervention had peribronchial LNs identified, whereas after the intervention significantly more (66/76, 86.8%, p < 0.01) specimens had peribronchial LNs identified. In addition, the mean number of peribronchial LNs identified significantly increased from 2.7 ± 3.3 pre-intervention to 4.3 ± 4.0 post-intervention (p < 0.001). Further analysis revealed a strong correlation between peribronchial LN metastases with both overall tumor size and invasive component size (for adenocarcinomas), correlation coefficient 0.974, p < 0.0001. CONCLUSION: Establishing focused grossing measures by pathology led to a significant increase in the number of peribronchial LNs identified and assessed during histopathologic evaluation of anatomic lung cancer resection specimens. Larger tumors are more likely to have occult peribronchial LN metastases, which may warrant more aggressive peribronchial LN assessment for larger tumors.

Grossing and reporting of bone tumor specimens in surgical oncology: Rationale with current evidence and recent updates.

Primary bone tumors, including sarcomas, are rare tumors and require a multidisciplinary approach, including inputs from a radiologist, pathologist, medical oncologist, and surgical and radiation oncologist, for optimal management. Over the years, there has been a paradigm shift toward the treatment of bone sarcomas, from radical resections to conservative surgical procedures, to achieve improved clinical and functional outcomes. This has led to receiving and processing various types of specimens in orthopedic oncopathology. Grossing and reporting of bone tumors require expertise. This review focuses upon the types of biopsies, grossing techniques of various specimens in orthopedic oncology and reporting, with rationale and recommendations from pathologists, actively involved in reporting and pursuing a special interest in bone tumors, based on current evidence. Furthermore, there is a section on some of the updates in the diagnosis of bone tumors, based on the recent fifth edition of the World Health Organization classification of tumors of soft tissues and bone.

[Standardized diagnosis of pancreatic head carcinoma]. / Standardisierte Befundung des Pankreaskopfkarzinoms.

Most pancreatic ductal adenocarcinomas are localized in the pancreatic head. Due to the complex anatomic relationships with the surrounding organs and vascular structures in the retroperitoneal space and to the presence of numerous transection margins and dissection planes, pancreatic head resections belong to the most complex specimens concerning grossing and sampling for histopathologic analysis.Here we discuss current guidelines for standardized grossing and reporting of pancreatic cancer, with special reference to the assessment of the resection margin status. The importance of standardized reporting for the sake of completeness, comprehensibility, comparability, and quality control as well as for the integration of pathology reports in interdisciplinary digital workflows and artificial intelligence applications will be emphasized.

Wrong Tissue in Block.

OBJECTIVES: Maintaining specimen identity during surgical pathology tissue processing is critical. Epic Beaker Laboratory Information System requires sequential scanning of specimen label and grossed blocks (block confirmation) to ensure specimen identity. We report our institution's experience with wrong tissue in block (WTIB) grossing errors before and after adopting block confirmation. METHODS: During the first 18 months of Beaker implementation, block confirmation was not required. We then mandated block confirmation for a 3-month period. To ensure compliance, we then built a "hard stop" feature that prevents scanning any unconfirmed blocks onto a packing list. We reviewed WTIB incidents pre- and postimplementation of these solutions. RESULTS: Before using block confirmation, we had WTIB incidents involving 17 (0.043%) of 38,848 cases. When we mandated block confirmation use, we had WTIB involving 2 (0.043%) of 4,646 cases. After implementing the hard stop feature, we had WTIB incidents involving 2 (0.005%) of 42,411 cases. Overall, there was an 88.4% (0.043% vs 0.005%; P < .001) reduction in WTIB incidents using block confirmation with a hard stop. CONCLUSIONS: Beaker is a customizable platform that can be tailored to a laboratory's workflow. By using barcoding, implementing custom-built features, and improving workflow protocols, we significantly reduced WTIB errors.

The Gross-to-Scope Program for Gross Room Personnel: An Innovative Initiative for Providing Case Follow-Up and Education to "Close the Pathology Loop".

Gross room personnel (GRP) work alongside pathologists in grossing, frozen section, and autopsy. We observed that gross room personnel desire follow-up and feedback on the specimens they gross or autopsies they perform. Our goal was to create a sustainable educational program for gross room personnel. Our primary focus was to impact team dynamic, morale, and fulfillment. We assessed the need for an educational program through a preprogram survey, which contained 11 subjective statements scored on a scale from 1 to 10 (1-strongly disagree and 10-strongly agree). These statements assessed topics of current follow-up and team dynamic (core statements), perceived effect of current follow-up, and prospective impact of case follow-up. Core statements received relatively low scores (ie, the perception of being "an integral part in making a diagnosis" received only a mean score of 6.7). In response, we established the Gross-to-Scope educational program hosted by pathology trainees and attendings. This program is comprised of monthly one-hour conferences to discuss/review cases and highlight special topics of interest (ie, "What is a radial margin anyway?"). We distributed the same surveys after the first and fourth conferences and found a statistically significant increase in the mean responses to core statements after the first conference (P = .041). The trend is similar after four conferences. Overall our program addresses various needs by providing educational opportunities for gross room personnel, which strengthens morale and recognizes hard work, and by fostering a working relationship between gross room personnel and pathologists.

Grossing and reporting of a soft tissue tumor specimen in surgical pathology: Rationale, current evidence, and recommendations.

Soft tissue tumors, including sarcomas are complex and diagnostically challenging tumors. This is as a result of their heterogeneity and overlapping clinicopathological, immunohistochemical and also molecular features, the latter to some extent. More than 80 types of sarcoma have been described. Current management, which is best offered at centers with active multidisciplinary care, is based on balancing oncologic and functional outcomes in such cases. This has transcended into the types of specimens received for grossing these rather uncommon tumors. Over the years, diagnostic specimens have reduced in their sizes from, open biopsies to core needle biopsies. These specimens need to be adequately and judiciously triaged for ancillary techniques, such as molecular testing. Conservative surgeries have led to resected specimens for marginal assessment. Lately, post neoadjuvant (chemotherapy or radiation therapy)-treated resection specimens of soft tissue sarcomas are being submitted for surgical pathology reporting. This article focuses on the grossing of soft tissue tumors, including sarcomas, in terms of types of specimens, grossing techniques including rationale, tissue triage, reporting, and recommendations from the surgical pathologists actively engaged in reporting musculoskeletal tumors, based on current evidence.

Inking of gross specimens: a systematic review.

BACKGROUND AND AIM: Histopathological Evaluation of surgical margins of a resected tumour specimen can give an insight about the extent of tumour spread. Errors in proper identification and orientation of resected tumour margins can lead to treatment failure and poor prognosis. Inking of resected margins is the most reliable and safe method. The aim of this study is to systematically review the studies which compares various materials used for inking of surgically resected specimen. MATERIALS AND METHODS: Articles searched from PubMed, Cochrane, Google search, manual search using key words - inking, tissue marking dyes, surgical margin, tumour margin, surgical pathology, grossing, gross specimens and back references of the articles, yielded three articles. Three articles with a total sample size of 1325 and compares properties of India ink, Acrylic colours and Tissue Marking Dyes were considered in this review. RESULTS: Both India ink and acrylic colours are good with respect to the Ease of application, visibility on paraffin wax blocks, Visibility on naked eye examination of slides and Visibility on microscope. Acrylic colours have less drying time than India ink. India ink do not result in contamination of tissue processing fluids, Interference with cellular and nuclear details and penetration in to tissues when compared with acrylic colours. CONCLUSION: India Ink will continue to dominate as the best surgical ink when comparing all the parameters till newer studies are available for acrylic colours or other dyes. Acrylic colours have the potential to be widely used as a tissue marking dyes except for the few disadvantages.

Gross reporting of adult kidney tumor specimens: A comprehensive evidence-based review.

Renal tumors comprise a wide spectrum of benign and malignant tumors. The important prognostic factors in renal cell carcinoma include pathological stage, tumor grade, morphological type, sarcomatoid/rhabdoid differentiation, and tumor necrosis. Therefore, the pathologist needs to be fully aware of how to gross nephrectomy specimens to be able to accurately provide the above prognostic information while reporting adult kidney tumors. With the advent of nephron-sparing surgeries, due diligence should be exercised to assess and sample the parenchymal surgical margin. This article discusses the approach to grossing nephrectomy specimens, elaborates the significance of every step, and also sheds light on the importance of clinical and radiological information in providing a holistic approach to the diagnosis and staging of adult renal tumors.

Breast Specimen Measurement Methodology and Its Potential Major Impact on Tumor Size.

OBJECTIVE: Pathologic tumor size assessment highly depends on the gross specimen size once microscopic cancer size exceeds its macroscopic size, in particular if the dimension along the plane of sectioning is the greatest. We hypothesize that the method by which the specimen size is estimated can yield significantly different tumor size measurements and thus affect breast cancer staging and treatment. METHODS: The size in the plane of sectioning of 50 lumpectomies over 4 cm was examined by 5 methods: measured grossly in the fresh state and postfixation, and calculated from the gross measurements by 3 different methods. For 15 mastectomies, we measured and calculated the span of the middle 4 and 6 slices using 3 methods. RESULTS: For all 50 lumpectomies, fresh measurement yielded the largest size. The difference in size of lumpectomies was greater with increasing specimen size (P < .001). Using the method of adding 0.4 cm per each submitted sequential section yielded the smallest size in most cases. In mastectomies the span of the middle 4 and 6 slices was significantly larger if calculated from the average slice thickness based on the specimen size. CONCLUSION: The method of specimen size measurement has implications in estimation of tumor size and patient management. It is essential that pathologists be aware of the technique used and its limitations. For individual slice thickness, we highly recommend using the measurements obtained at the time of grossing rather than calculating the average slice thickness from the specimen size.

Grossing and reporting of squamous cell carcinoma of oral cavity-An evidence-based approach.

The grossing of radical surgery specimens of the head and neck region is extremely challenging due to the complicated anatomy with the inclusion of various tissues such as mucosa, soft-tissue, bone, skin, etc., in the specimen. Also, essential/core data provided in the histopathology report significantly influence further treatment decisions taken. The eighth edition of the cancer staging manual of the American Joint Committee on Cancer has brought about major changes in reporting of squamous cell carcinoma of the oral cavity. Though pathologists in oncology centers who routinely handle such specimens are aware of these updates and the impact of their report on patient management, this may not be true for other peripheral centers that may be handling these specimens. Lack of awareness can lead to a compromised report which will adversely affect patient management. This article attempts to discuss the salient features to be noted in grossing and reporting of squamous cell carcinoma of the oral cavity and the rationale behind this.